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Opinion on Ocean Yachts?

Fishkiller2000.

I am the owner and operator of Mega Bite 2, it is a 1979 ocean yachts 40SS. This boat is in the "flexible fyler" time period, and i'll tell ya; WHAT A BUNCH OF BS! The boat is solid as a rock with no blisters and a good design, some of the boats did have some tabbing issues but ocean recalled those ones and were fixed. As far as blisters go, that is purley a matinence thing, if the boat sits in water and the guy uses cheap bottom paint and hasnt put a barrier coat on, that is the reason for the blisters. Ocean is a highly reputable builder started by the long time boat building family the leeks. They have put a great combination of style performance and economy into a sweet package that no ocean yachts owner can deny. About that boat sinking, EVERY BOAT THAT SIZE CAN SINK, AND ACCIDENTS DO HAPPEN. Hope it helped, G.S. Mega Bite 2, Bouns Check, and The Grady  

i heard that in following seas the boat tends to be sloppy? i have seen a few in the yards and it looks like the keel kinda ends and it flattens out from the shaft outlet to the stern. Is that a real concern when the boat slides down a wave face.  

Reel Force - Following sea performance varies by model. Some were better than others. Current models are actually darn good and carry a lot of deadrise to the transom.  

The older Ocean Yachts did have a problem in following seas due to the flat stern but they corrected the problem when they came out with the "New Generation" hulls in 1990. [ 01-22-2006, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: ANDY L ]  

Captain's John & Diana

I have fished the canyons in some real crap and had Ocean's right next to me and they handled the seas as well as our boat. I think the rep they have is way over kill and I certainly would not be embrassed to own one. They will get you out and back with the best of the offshore boats in their class and save you quite a bit of money versus the high end battle wagons. I have known some Ocean owners that did have the blister problems and Ocean stood by these customers and repaired the problems even after the boats were over 10 year old. One thing is no new boat is cheap these days and that label pertains to all offshore boats when bought new. I would not put Ocean near the top of my personal list of top end offshore boats but I think you get a lot of boat for your money. I know a whole bunch of charter capts from MD to Florida that would disagree with this but I like Oceans and would fish on one any day. Our new 55 Carolina Custom will cost probably 1 million dollars less than a new Ocean of the comparable size but it takes every bit of almost two years to get one built. Capt John  

imported_Ed. C.

Dr. Mike, any boat has it's problems, to give you an idea, some new 48 Vikings have the engines laying on the hull. They are now revising the layout and are raising the engines on about 6 of them as i speak. By the way they were delivered before they found out about the problem. Talk about quality control.  

To start I have always owned a Grady White! (Please don't attack guys!) The only larger sportfishing boats that I have fished on were Vikings, Bertram and NC custom offshore boats.When I decided to step up I called a friend from NC looking for advice! To make a long story short he steered me towards the Oceans. I bought the most negleted Ocean last spring! There was more coat hanger and duck tape on this boat then anyone can imagine! I had two surveys done on the boat and both resulted in the same response! Superficially it is a piece of Sh** but structurally it is solid as a rock. I decided to buy this sled and I've never been happier! It is a tank! Pulled off a number of offshore trips the summer and only failed me once! The boat itself did't fail a brand new $3.00 hose failed on my starboard engine. I just had the bottom stripped and there is not a blister in sight. Mind you there a few problems here and there but the boat had been negleted for the last ten years. Presently thinking of stepping up and I would stay with Ocean! Only my .02 !!  

BUB-A-JACK, which year and model ocean did you buy? great to hear she's been good to you so far. Best of luck with her.  

89 44 Super Sport w/ 671TI's. Having the engines rebuilt in the next month! Slowly trying to minimize my variables! Electronics will follow soon after the engines!  

BUB-A-JACK, thats great. You might want to consider fishing the Ocean/Viking Showdown in Cape May this July. Its always a nice event and a good time is had by all.  

I captain a 2004 40 Luhrs. Luhrs suffers from the same sort of internet chat room and dock snobbery as Ocean does. Most of the people I have seen who are critical of them have absolutely no experience with them whatsoever and half of those people couldn't afford to fix the toilet on one when it broke.  

bub a jack, The 44' Ocean Yacht is a very good fishing boat, I won or placed in many tournaments against the biggest and the best with an Ocean 44'. ( mid to late eighties) I would think twice about moving up, that boat can flat out raise fish. Captn Joe  

i tell you what, when i win tonights power ball i am going to buy an F & S run it at 46 knots i am going to be able to outrun Capt Timmy to the Rock Pile. OOPS< my fourth rum and coke just spilled the beav [ 02-18-2006, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: cee beaver ]  

Edward Warren

Ok guys here is my opinion regarding Ocean Yachts. A lot of flash for a reasonable amount of cash. Be fair and compare apples and apples not apples and oranges. Don't try to compare an Ocean to a Viking, Bertram, Hatteras,Cabo, even a the older Jersey. I spent 8 years at the Canyon Club and fished on almost every size Ocean as they are the Ocean franchised dealers for the area. It is what it is. They don't ride like a Viking or the above mentioned boats, but then again lets compare say a 48 Ocean to the same year Viking. There will be a difference of about 500,000 - 600,000. It is not about one company making a lot more money it is about quality in construction, and the amount of glass, stringers, Etc. I remember walking into the electronics department in the Canyon Club and asking what all the 2 inch diameter, 1/2 inch thick plugs laying on the glass counter were from. The answer was, they were the cut outs from the bottom of Oceans to install transducers. So now you know what makes Oceans a quick boat. They are lighter than most other boats their size. In summary, they still are a lot of boat for the bucks. In 1998,99,2000 I ran a new 40 Ocean which was fast, but in a bad beam sea you had better keep your trim tabs set to full bow up, or the bow will dig in and try to broach you.I ran this boat in the 500,000 and the white marlin open for 3 years. Fast and good in a nice sea, in a 3-5 foot chop had to get my molars tightened up. Again it is what it is, a lot of boat for the money. Please don't take this as a knock against Ocean Yachts, as it is not intended to be that way. It is just my honest opinions through my experiences. Also ran a 1990 48' for a friend for almost 10 years, and it had a fairly good ride.  

why do owners of ocean yachts have to change fuel tanks after 10-13 years, where I never heard of fuel tanks being changed in berts, or vikings. It is a serious question not a knock. I stated in earlier post that ocean makes a very strong and competitive brand that is proven. But i have seen alot of salons windows cut out and lifting tanks in and out over the years.????  

To say the Ocean's are lighter than most isn't really a fair statement although it seems to be a popular misconception. The difference in weight isn't as substantial as many seem to believe. Lets compare the 52 Ocean and the 52 Viking side by side (since both boats are current models and the only two that match in size). The 52 Ocean is 52'7", beam 16'4", and weighs in at 56,000. The 52 Viking is 52'10", 17'3" beam, and weighs in at 62,000. The Viking weighs roughly 10% more. Also lets look at a couple of other 52 footers. The 52 Egg Harbor weighs in at 52,000 and the old 52 Hatteras (84-91) weighs in at 55,400. To say they are lighter than most boats their size isn't really a fair statement especially for the current Ocean models.  

For some reason Ocean Yachts does not put bonding strips on the fuel tanks of all there boats. The ones without the bonding strips are the ones that have the tank problems. [ 02-19-2006, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: ANDY L ]  

Fish killer 2000------- If the Boat named Mega Bite 2,is the same 1979 40 Ocean I have looked at for a long time in the parking lot of Schooner Island Marina, you have not even had the boat long enough to remove the cob webs.  

Most of you guys are really not being fair regarding the Ocean Yachts. Just like other boat manufactures they did have many of the problems mentioned above, but that was way back then. Today John Leek the owner has benefitted from previous problems and has done all he and his engineers can do to correct the past problems they have had. So give them the credit they deserve and lets not live in the past. They are not the only boat manufacturer who has had previous problems. For those who don't know where and how Ocean Yachts came to be, let me inform you and bring you up to date. Back in the late 60's and 70's I was fortunate enough to fish in the A.C. Marlin tournaments and met Donald Leek. Yes, John Leeks uncle who back then owned and built Pacemakers and Egg Harbors. I don't hear anyone condeming either of those boats. When Ocean Yachts was started the basic knowledge about boat building came from the Leek family of boat builders. Making and starting a new boat company always has things to iron out before the product becomes what it has become today. So for those who want to pass judgement, be fair and take a look at how many transoms rotted and fell off the older Bayliners back in the 60's. Just like the famous Muff Diver which is an Ocean Yacht we all know is lying on the bottom, there are several Bayliners there too, as well as others. So guys be fair and don't live in the past.------------  

This one is for Dr. Mike--- The lawyer who handled the deal pertaining to past problems and law suits with the older Oceans was a friend of mine. I got the real story first hand directly from him. This had nothing to do with 1990 Oceans, it pertained to the Oceans built in the early days back in 1979 and before. If you are curious about what is the truth I will be glad to tell you. But not on here, as it is not in good taste, and I would not want it possibly misconstrued or blown out of portion as could happen on here. .............  

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Ocean Yachts

• Thread starter Power2Sail
• Start date 24 Jun 2019
• 24 Jun 2019

Hi all Well just back on the forum again and after some wonderful advice last time we are now setting our plans in full action. But one thing is puzzling us somewhat. As we are looking to sail away our early retirement years, we will be looking at a boat capable of doing potentially around the world. So with this in mind we have started looking and there is a world of difference between boats. What should we be looking at and possibly what makes would you recommend? Thanks again P2S  

Fr J Hackett

Well-known member.

Power2Sail said: Hi all Well just back on the forum again and after some wonderful advice last time we are now setting our plans in full action. But one thing is puzzling us somewhat. As we are looking to sail away our early retirement years, we will be looking at a boat capable of doing potentially around the world. So with this in mind we have started looking and there is a world of difference between boats. What should we be looking at and possibly what makes would you recommend? Thanks again P2S Click to expand...

And it comes in two version, feet and metres.  

FlyingGoose

Fr J Hackett said: All a question of how deep your pockets are and how spartan or not you wish your life to be. An Anderson 22 comes highly recommended. Click to expand...

There is such a range and people happily do it in Bavaria/Jeanneau/Beneteau production boats through to steel monoliths almost capable of ice breaking. The aft cockpit production boats are designed for warm weather sailing and the living conditions are therefore much more suitable for the normal Med, Atlantic, Pacific and Indian Ocean than a boat designed to withstand Artic and Southern Ocean conditions. People seem to have strong fixed opinions even about the warm weather routes and my take on it is that the boats people choose are based on their own dreams about the voyage - if you see yourself as Joshua Slocum or Shackleton braving the elements you wear life jackets and foul weather gear to the pub and have a steel schooner and if you dream about diving into turquoise anchorages you wear boxer shorts in a rain squall and concentrate on lots of opening window, sunshade everywhere and a big fridge for the wine. Both types sailing the same oceans but the rufty-tufty ones seem to remember storms more vividly as part of their narrative compared to the others who remember that perfect beach bar.  

First, as others have said, how deep is your wallet? Do you want centre cockpit with aft cabin or aft cockpit? Our own choice when looking was around 38 - 40ft, centre cockpit, avoiding spade rudders and high aspect keels.  

Thanks for the replies so far, Budget will be upwards of 250k. it could be as much as 400k but that does depend on investments etc. If all goes well it could be the 400+K. But if everything goes crap it could be 150K But looking at around 300k for the boat ? Thanks  

Remember CATS are also an option great space to live aboard  

Take a look at the larger Island Packets. Might well fit the bill. They are very good for the tropics, well insulated and good ventilation. Also, perhaps quite important, they were designed to be sailed by a mature couple. Remember-all boats are a compromise. I suggest you put your must haves in one column and your nice to haves in another and see what comes closest.  

FlyingGoose said: Remember CATS are also an option great space to live aboard Click to expand...

An Andersen 22 should be within budget then.:encouragement:  

Fr J Hackett said: An Andersen 22 should be within budget then.:encouragement: Click to expand...

Power2Sail said: Thanks for the replies so far, Budget will be upwards of 250k. it could be as much as 400k but that does depend on investments etc. If all goes well it could be the 400+K. But if everything goes crap it could be 150K But looking at around 300k for the boat ? Click to expand...

sailaboutvic

RupertW said: Agreed, with that budget I’d go for a catamaran - you will love not rolling on those long tradewind passages and not rolling at anchor when you get there. And of course barely heeling when you spend a few days sailing upwind. But is that the image you dream about? Chartering in the sorts of areas you might sail will give you an idea of what you and don’t like and most importantly will give you a comparison of space and light and ventilation compared to the traditional blue water types that people will keep recommending. And centre cockpit - really? That aft swimming platform is your stepless front door to the quay and to your dinghy and an aft cockpit is so much roomier and will be your living area with downstairs just for bedrooms, bathrooms and kitchen. Click to expand...

Cheers for the replies up to now, its a lot to think about. But so far we have the following in our List Halberg Rassey Moody 41 AC, But she likes the Deck saloon model, is this ok for Ocean cruising? X-Yachts 45 Are there any others to add? As for the Catamaran's where to start any decent makes to look at?  

I'm biased (as most people on here will be), but take a look at Oysters - in your price range you can get good second hand examples of the 45, 46, 485, etc. I have a much older Oyster 406, but the design themes of the modern 'smaller' Oysters can be traced back to the older boats. Well designed, well built - you may or may not like a centre cockpit, but they are worth a look. We have two very experienced sailing friends who both bought secondhand Oysters in the 45-48ft range, and as far as I am aware both have been very pleased with them. One will shortly be finishing and Atlantic circuit, and the other is about to set off on a circumnavigation. We have just taken ours across Biscay, and a previous owner took her to the Med and back.  

Power2Sail said: Cheers for the replies up to now, its a lot to think about. But so far we have the following in our List Halberg Rassey Moody 41 AC, But she likes the Deck saloon model, is this ok for Ocean cruising? X-Yachts 45 Are there any others to add? As for the Catamaran's where to start any decent makes to look at? Click to expand...

If you can get hold of a copy, it is worth looking at what Yachting Monthly in their current adition has to say about the Krakenn 50. Also in Yachting World April 2018 there is a review of the Amel 50 plus a very interesting article by Pete Goss on his choice for a Blue Water Cruiser for 2, a Garcia Exploration 46.  

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• General Discussion

What's the story on Navigator Yachts?

• Thread starter KalaKai
• Start date Oct 21, 2016
• Oct 21, 2016

Veteran Member

I'm guessing they're maybe a slight step up from Mainship in quality and offshore ability? Is this correct? My preferred boats are Ocean Alexander and Tollycraft and this seems to be a step below them. I'm looking at using the boat primarily inshore, but will occasionally go 100 miles or so offshore crossing the Gulf of Mexico. I"m looking at the 53 pilothouse. Any thoughts would be appreciated. thanks ETA: I haven't seen or have been able to confirm hull design, but it seems this boat has no keel, is this correct? I would assume this may be she's not as directionally stable or rides as well in seas as a Tolly or OA.  

I've sailed offshore in my own boats (sailing) for 25 years, so captain/crew are not an issue. OA is an 86, though in excellent condition. No concerns at all on this boats ability to handle reasonable gulf seas or mechanical condition. Tolly is a 92 and also excellent conditions. Again, I'm not concerned about this boat's ability to handle gulf weather. and condition. The Navigator is a 98 and I've confirmed no keel, a flat bottom aft, though a reasonable bow for seas as far as I can tell. I can't imagine she'd be as good as OA and TC IN handling seas and holding course, but guess she'd be OK as long as I kept her out of really bad stuff. I also guess the wiring, decks, windows and build wouldn't be as robust as OA and TC, but guess it would be above average (mainship/carver etc). All of this I guess as I really know nothing about the boats.  

Moderator Emeritus

KalaKai said: The Navigator is a 98 and I've confirmed no keel, a flat bottom aft, though a reasonable bow for seas as far as I can tell. I can't imagine she'd be as good as OA and TC IN handling seas and holding course Click to expand...

yachtbrokerguy

Senior member.

I just closed on a 57' Navigator a few months ago that I had listed. The buyer is now living on board and it is his first boat. I thought the boat was a good fit for him because it is a 2004 model. For the price he paid for this boat compared to a similar size boat built by other builders he would have had to buy a much older boat. Without a lot of experience in maintenance, the newer boat should be easier to take care of for him. Plus he liked the layout and light wood interior. I have not been out in rough water with him but did a trip to Miami and back this week for part of his free boat driving lessons. With a Yacht Controller and bow and stern thrusters he is handling the boat very well. Navigator built the boat to be sold for less money than some other builders and therefore some boats on the used market may be a lower price. This was the second time I listed the same boat, I listed it six years ago and that owner was happy enough with the boat to list with me when he decided to sell.  

You can look here as well..... Market View: Navigator Motor Yachts from the Past 20 Years  

I will add that the 42' has beautiful wide side decks that are easy to navigate for line handling. The flybridge will easily sit 6 or 7 adults for sundowners. When we bought the boat, Tom thought for sure the pilothouse settee was a waste of space and we'd never use it. As it turns out, it is a GREAT place to hang out for meals, morning coffee and working from boat. (with a great view too!) We love ours. Your mileage may vary.  

smitty477 said: You can look here as well..... Market View: Navigator Motor Yachts from the Past 20 Years Click to expand...

"Designed by Jules Marshall of Californian fame, these boats were all built in Perris, California. A po-dunk third-world town he picked because the cost of living was so low that he could pay less and still have the workers provide for their families. A small piece of land on the edge of the Mojave Desert next to a huge garbage dump. " Jule Marshal l is his name (no "S" in Jule). I believe Jule is still alive, but I'm not definite. The Mojave Desert is a 3 hr drive (about 200 miles) NE of Perris, CA. Perris is in an area called the Inland Empire in southern CA, 85 miles east of LA, near Riverside, CA. It might have been relatively sparsely populated (by LA standards) when Navigator moved there but has a significant population of close to 70,000 today, up from about 35,000 in 2000. Love those Navigator boats! They might be faster than the OA or Tolly. Tom, what's your high speed cruise? 12-14K? If you're on plane, the importance of a keel for course keeping diminishes.  

Attachments

caltexflanc

Navigators are good honest boats. They are a successor brand to Californian, which many members here have. The hull is most similar to the classic Bertram deep vees, which are ocean going offshore boats. Being of west coast origin, they are built for ocean use, as there are no "protected waters" between San Francisco and Cabo (not counting Mission Bay), hardly a "cruising ground" per se. I wouldn't turn my nose up at one, and I am a Hatteras snob (keeled boats BTW).  

FlyWright said: "Designed by Jules Marshall of Californian " Jule Marshal is his name (no "S" in Jule). Click to expand...

MYTraveler said: But Marshall (two L's), right? Click to expand...

caltexflanc said: Navigators are good honest boats. Click to expand...

Thanks for the corrections. I like being more smarterer nowz.  

I'd call Navigator another of those boats that un-knowledgeable non-owners might put down, yet they have a lot of very happy owners. It happens a lot to moderately priced boats.  

To further B&B's post above... I would caution newbies (and we were all newsbys once) to avoid ranking boats in terms of build quality, or better yet perceived build quality. All boats have pluses and minuses. Here's some examples... One of the least cost ways into a large boat is to buy a older "Taiwan Trawler". These are boats that were built in the far east under a variety of brand names from about the early 70's to about the mid 80's. Many of these boats had exceptional interior jointery, probably due to the inexpensive labor available in the far east back then. Does that mean they are ranked higher? Or lower? But wait, time has shown that some of these boats had major issues such as steel tanks that have failed. Does that affect your ranking??? Or is that just indicative of the technology available back then??? Take the Navigators that were asked about. Nice looking boats, but some unknowing slam them, for really ZERO reason. Does that make them bad? No it does not. Take Bayliner. Heck, everybody seems to want to slam the Bayliners. Right up to the time they step onboard one. Then they generally say things like "nice boat" Then lets take engines. Everybody seems to love the Ford Lehman. Why??? Is it a great engine? Hey current internet lore slams the Detroit/GM 2 strokes. But wait.... both are reliable engines, yet parts for a detroit are much more readily available, as is skilled mechanical help. Yet, if you listen to current internet lore the Detroit 2 strokes should be used only as anchors. So... My advice to you is to think more in terms of how you are going to use your boat. What do you see yourself doing in it? Think of big picture items like do you prefer aft cabin, or pilot house designs. Then go look at real boats and decide for yourself if you like what you see. And always remember, you are not just buying a boat. You are buying all the care (or lack of it) that every previous owner put into the boat. That is often much more important than the factory that built it.  

• Oct 22, 2016

Alaskan Sea-Duction

Please forgive my ignorance. I was told this summer that navigators were built by a division of Bayliner???? True?  

Alaskan Sea-Duction said: Please forgive my ignorance. I was told this summer that navigators were built by a division of Bayliner???? True? Click to expand...

"Please forgive my ignorance. I was told this summer that navigators were built by a division of Bayliner???? True?" False - that is not accurate as they are completely separate companies and always have been. Perhaps they were talking about Meridian.  

I owned a navigator 53 until 4 years ago. Very easy to work boats, almost every parts of the boat are reachable. Volvo engines are reliable, although I replaced a heat exchanger and price almost kill me. I drove that boat normally out the bay; not really impress with movement at ocean, really prefer a much more heavy boat. Internal wood work was decent, nothing to argue about it. Would buy it again.. humm.. nop.. it's a nice boat but just that... just my 0.2 cents...  

Navigator Yachts was sold fairly recently by the Marshall family and production stopped. Here's an article from 2013: Private equity group acquires Navigator Yachts Posted on February 27th, 2013 Written by Michael LaBella Navigator Yachts Inc., builder of Navigator Yachts and Californian Yachts, has been sold to a private equity investment group and is now operating under the name Navigator Yachts and Products Inc. Alberto Cogliati, who has worked with the company for a dozen years and is now filling the role of general manager, confirmed to Soundings Trade Only that the company was sold at the end of 2012 and got back up and running under new ownership early this year after completing the permitting and sale process. “A lot of people are calling and inquiring about it,” Cogliati told Trade Only. “We haven’t announced it officially yet, but yes, the company was sold.” The new owners have opted not to release their identity to the public at this time, Cogliati told Trade Only this morning. The company plans to maintain its focus on building and selling in the United States while also exploring international opportunities, Cogliati said. It also will make some changes to its model lineup and likely will introduce a new model. The goal will be to implement building innovations and explore options in alternative materials to keep costs down and prices lower while maintaining the quality of the products. Jule Marshall, who founded Californian Yachts in 1972 and Navigator Yachts in 1988, is no longer involved in the company, Cogliati said. “The good news is that we’re financially stronger, and we’re looking to grow our dealer network and expand our market outside of the United States,” he said. “We’re still maintaining all of our dealers in the United States and even trying to expand in the U.S. And I’m looking at some South American markets and probably some Asian markets.” The 45- to 68-foot semicustom long-range cruisers will continue to be built in Perris, Calif. When the economy was robust the company was building roughly four yachts a month, but the downturn caused that number to drop to eight to 10 units a year, Cogliati said. “What we build is nothing small, so it’s very important for us to expand the market because I don’t think now in the United States we can sustain three or four boats a month,” Cogliati said. “The only way to go forward with production is to explore other markets. I do believe in trying to keep as much as possible in this country. So my priority is trying to build boats here in California and then send boats to Brazil and other countries.” The company also wants to change some things model-wise, Cogliati said, and introduce a new boat to the lineup. “We’re reintroducing some models that have been successful,” Cogliati said. “Our models are fairly popular, especially here in California and in the Northwest. The last thing we want to do is increase the price of powerboats, especially with the economy the way it is. We’re trying to keep the price down while building a quality boat and investing some money in some of the quality features that people want.” The company will try to lower the in-house cost of building the boats by using new techniques that will reduce the time spent building, Cogliati said. “We want to provide a turnkey product that doesn’t require any extra investment from the customer.” — Reagan Haynes Private equity group acquires Navigator Yachts | Trade Only Today  

BandB said: No. Click to expand...

When researching before buying this boat, I was told by a previous Navigator dealer out of the NW that the new owners moved everything to China. Don't know if it's true.  

The new owners appear to have done nothing. Not unusual. Tollycraft, Navigator, Californian, Post. The list goes on and on. Those articles are just PR fluff. They didn't even maintain ownership of the web domain.  

BandB said: The new owners appear to have done nothing. Not unusual. Tollycraft, Navigator, Californian, Post. The list goes on and on. Those articles are just PR fluff. They didn't even maintain ownership of the web domain. Click to expand...

• Oct 23, 2016

Check out the Facebook page. It says they have some parts available. Might be obsolete.  

FlyWright said: Check out the Facebook page. It says they have some parts available. Might be obsolete. Click to expand...

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When the Bayesian sank around 4 a.m. on Aug. 19, the waters in its area, about half a mile off the Sicilian port of Porticello, were transformed by an extremely sudden and violent storm, according to fishermen, a captain in the area and meteorologists.

But what kind of storm is still a mystery, compounded by the fact that a sailing schooner anchored nearby did not have its own disaster. Also unclear is whether the crew was aware that the Italian authorities had issued general warnings about bad weather the night before.

Karsten Börner, the captain of the nearby passenger ship, said he’d had to steady his ship during “really violent” winds . During the storm, he said, the Bayesian seemed to disappear behind his ship.

Severe lightning and strong gusts were registered by the Italian Air Force’s Center for Aerospace Meteorology and Climatology, according to Attilio Di Diodato, its director. “It was very intense and brief in duration,” he said.

The yacht, he said, had most likely been hit by a fierce downburst — a blast of powerful wind surging down during a thunderstorm. His agency put out rough-sea warnings the previous evening, alerting sailors about possible storms.

Locals have said the winds “felt like an earthquake.” A fisherman in Porticello said that he had seen a flare go off in the early-morning hours. His brother ventured to the site once the weather had calmed about 20 minutes later, he said, finding only floating cushions.

The Italian authorities have so far declined to say whether investigators had seen any structural damage to the hull or other parts of the ship.

Open hatches or doors?

The boat executive, Mr. Costantino, has argued that the Bayesian was an extremely safe vessel that could list even to 75 degrees without capsizing. His company, the Italian Sea Group, in 2022 bought the yacht’s manufacturer, Perini Navi, which launched the ship in 2008.

Mr. Costantino said that if some of the hatches on the side and in the stern, or some of the deck doors, had been open, the boat could have taken on water and sunk. Standard procedure in such storms, he said, would be to switch on the engine, lift the anchor and turn the boat into the wind, lowering the keel for extra stability, closing doors and gathering the guests in the main hall inside the deck.

At a news conference on Saturday, almost a week after the sinking, investigators said the yacht had sunk at an angle , with its stern — where the heavy engine was — having gone down first. The wreck was found lying on its right side at the bottom of a bay, about 165 feet deep.

12 guests occupied the yacht’s six cabins. There were also 10 crew members.

Open hatches, doors and cabin windows could have let in water during a storm, according to the manufacturer.

Open hatches, doors and

cabin windows could

have let in water

during a storm,

according to the

manufacturer.

Source: Superyacht Times, YachtCharterFleet, MarineTraffic

By Veronica Penney

Water pouring into open hatches or doors could have contributed to the sinking, experts say, but that on its own may not account for the speed at which such a large boat vanished underwater.

Asked about the hatches at the news conference, the authorities declined to comment on whether they had been found open at the wreck.

The authorities have also not specified whether the boat had been anchored, whether it was under power at the time or whether its sails had been unfurled.

A retracted keel?

The Bayesian had a keel — the fin-like structure beneath a boat that can help stabilize it — that could be retracted or extended, according to its manufacturer. On some yachts, keels can be raised to let the large vessel dock in shallower water, and extended downward to help keep a boat level.

But like the hatches, the status of the keel alone may not explain why a large ship sank with such precipitous speed. Investigators have not disclosed what divers may have seen at the wreck, aside from saying divers had faced obstacles like furnishings and electrical wiring in tight quarters. Officials want to raise the wreck to better examine it, a process that may take weeks.

Human error?

Ambrogio Cartosio, the prosecutor in charge of the case, said at the news conference that it was “plausible” crimes had been committed, but that investigators had not zeroed in on any potential suspects.

“There could be responsibilities of the captain only,” he said. “There could be responsibilities of the whole crew. There could be responsibilities of the boat makers. Or there could be responsibilities of those who were in charge of surveilling the boat.”

It remains unclear what kind of emergency training or preparation took place before the disaster, or what kind of coordination there was during it. So far, none of the surviving crew members have made a public statement about what happened the night the ship sank.

Prosecutors said they want to ask more questions of the captain and crew, who have been in a Sicilian hotel with other survivors. They said that neither alcohol nor drug tests had been performed on crew members, and that they have been allowed to leave Italy.

Prosecutors also said they were also investigating why the captain, an experienced sailor, left the sinking boat while some passengers were still on board.

Besides possible manslaughter charges, the authorities are investigating the possibility of a negligently caused shipwreck.

The bodies of five passengers were found in one cabin, on the left side of the yacht, the authorities said. The five were most likely trying to flee to the higher side of the boat and were probably sleeping when the boat started to sink, they said.

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I am considering the purchase of another boat. I have been a rag boater for twenty-five years, but would like to go a bit faster with more comfort. The boat will be used mostly in the San Francisco bay area for living aboard, cruising, and fishing. The following are the boats that I am considering. 1. Hatteras 60 sportfisher (original version) 2. Hatteras 53 yachtfisher (with the single huge, beautiful aft cabin) 3. Ocean 55 sportfisher 4. Striker 60 (older model) 5. Striker 54 (really old model) Perhaps you all could give me your thoughts on these boats. Any info on quality of the boats, ride, problem areas, good points, and bad points would be appreciated.

If it were me, I'd only consider the two yachts by Hatteras... in my opinion the Ocean is of lesser quality and the Strikers are built of aluminum, which in itself can present numerous negative factors i.e. noisy, paint does't like to stick, and you have to be careful with what type of bottom paint to use and I've got a feeling that's just for starters. The choice between the 53 yacht-fish and the 60 convertible is pretty simple, do you like to just ride around in comfort and play like your fishing then the 53 is for you or do you like to ride around in comfort and really do some fishing, then the 60 is the only way to fly. Good Luck!!

There are not many Strikers out there...

..but I owned one. It was actually the same hull that had been in their ads, caught in a huge storm between the eastern US and Bermuda. They are seaworthy boats. They are also slow, noisy, damp and impossible to fix unless you happen to have a PhD in welding. The worry about electrolysis is constant. And it is a serious worry. I would not have another Striker as a gift. Not when you can get a quality fiberglass boat for the same money or less, have your choice of many more (the TOTAL production of Strikers of all sizes is only a few hundred if that), and have a boat that you will be able to resell well when you are done. Very few people want to own an aluminum boat. The ones that avoid it are right. I am not a fan of Ocean Yachts; they are built down to a price and I firmly believe have a lot of glitz at the expense of sturdiness and quality. They may be better than they were at the beginning, but they had very little room to go anywhere but upwards. This is a Hatteras forum, so you will get a lot of pro-Hatteras opinions here. As is mine; in your shoes, I would get the YF rather than the 60SF. Not as fast and not as sleek, but maybe more comfortable and less initial cost.

I'd buy the YF over the SF in that size, BUT I'm more of a diver than a hard-core fisherman. If I was the latter, I'd buy the 60 SF. The Yachtfish is a beautiful boat, but it simply is not up to being a hard-core fishing boat - its not designed as one, its not built as one, and the first time you have to back down on a Marlin in one you'll know why its the wrong boat for that job.

Ride, Sally, Ride...

Many other threads and posts discuss ride. The concensus is that the Hatt's win the ride question, hands down. The great ride is a function of hull form and weight. Hatts are heavy but also very, very strong and that also means safe! I just received my latest Motor Boating with an extensive listing of the latest yachts in the back. Take a look at all the hull weights where the Hatt is listed at 74K #'s. All the others are around 60K. Since the other power trains are similar, the extra 15-16K #'s is in the hull- that translates into strength and knockdown (was I drooling...sorry). Great Lakes Boater with a 1972 43'...

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The Sea Demonstrates Again It Doesn't Care - Yacht Bayesian

Billionaire or humble steward, old or young, ragged refugee skiff or luxury superyacht, the sea again demonstrates she doesn’t care & takes them all the same.

“The sea is selective, slow at recognition of effort and aptitude, but fast in sinking the unfit.”

This articles does a good job of describing how the mast probably played a big part in the sinking & discusses the weather conditions.

Thanks, don’t usually look at the Torygraph, and its paywalled. But as I said (and being familiar with Perinis) that would be my expectation

It looks like you are probably correct. A 20+ story mast might not have been the best idea? But the Torygraph isn’t charging me, probably because of my location & ip address. Here’s the image.

I’ve read erratic & sometimes conflicting remarks about being knocked flat, righting, followed by rig folding. Wrong place, wrong time. Who needs a rig bigger than Panamax (60m)? All other big rigs (eg Mirabella V) are carbon.

was reading about this in the financial times Subscribe to read

and aside from the maritime aspect of this accident i found this piece of the article interesting… “The yacht incident came on the same day as the death was confirmed of Lynch’s co-defendant in the US fraud case, Stephen Chamberlain, who was hit by a car in Cambridgeshire.”

Hold on to our tin-foil hats…Conspiracy theories are guaranteed.

Ken Lay was killed by a stationary tree weeks before his appointment with the judge overseeing his retirement home plans at Club Fed for millionaires. Maybe Neptune & the Tree God are working together against those so rich they slip through the cracks.

The ‘Baynesian’ anchored off Porticello at around 20::00 UTC the evening before the disaster. Another sail yacht, ‘Sir Robert Baden Powell‘, an old classic one (1958, two masts, about 40 meters) was at anchor nearby to NW. Two men from this yacht came over in a small craft, when the ‘Baynesian’ disappeared, to save the swimming people.

The wind, after midnight until the disaster, was WNW 10/15 knots at large, at the protected anchorage 2/3 knots. However, there was this singular villain waterspout inside, probably invisible during the night. The water temperature was about 30°C, the air temp at about 26°C (maybe this influences the strength of the waterspout).

I have seen many waterspouts, but never what they could do on boats or ships.

After drifting away: The first direction arrow is at 01:59 UTC, speed 1.3kn The second arrow is at 02:03, speed 2.6kn The last AIS signal is at 02:05, speed 2.6kn

A few from that company have passed away since the court case.

Calm down everyone. The cause has been found. You knew it, didn’t you?

(Copied from The Telegraph)

Climate change contributed to the weather that caused Bayesian to sink, claims expert

Prof Mercalli, one of Italy’s leading climate experts, said climate change had contributed to the weather phenomenon that caused the boat to sink.

He said: “The sea surface temperature around Sicily was about 30 degrees, which is almost three degrees higher than normal. That creates a huge source of energy that contributes to these storms.

“We can’t say this is all due to climate change, but we can say it has an amplifying effect.”

Prof Mercalli said the sinking of Mike Lynch’s luxury yacht was similar to the boating tragedy in which four people were killed on Lake Maggiore in northern Italy in May 2023.

Leading climate expert says crew should have paid more attention to weather warnings

Luca Mercalli, one of Italy’s leading climate experts and president of the Italian Meteorological Society, said the crew of the Bayesian should have paid more attention to the weather warnings issued by Italian authorities before the tragedy occurred.

While noting the tornado that occurred off Sicily’s coast was not predictable, Professor Mercalli told The Telegraph the authorities had issued a “yellow” then a moderate weather alert and the crew should have been more vigilant of the changing weather conditions despite the darkness.

Prof Mercalli said: “I don’t know if there was anyone on board consulting the radar.

“Let’s say that if I had been on board, at the first sign of a thunderstorm I would have woken up all the occupants and been ready and alert with life jackets on until the storm was over.”

He said weather radar made it possible to estimate within 15 to 30 minutes the arrival of an intense thunderstorm, even though it is impossible to know if the wind intensity will reach dangerous levels.

Note: Please advise in replies the number of times you have mustered the entire crew and passengers with lifejackets on at the first sign of a thunderstorm. Surely everybody just does that as standard procedure?

[Comment may not make complete sense to non-SUNY Maritime types] I have always thought “mugs” should be made to memorize that quote (from an alumni and superintendent of the school ) and not the so-called “sallyport saying.” (I don’t recall the quote exactly, it’s from Stonewall Jackson and the gist is that junior officers must blindly obey superiors without question).

We did…at least 20 years ago. I don’t know what they learn now, but I agree with you.

I heard they tried doing away with that, as it’s a quote from a Confederate General. This was back during the hectic Summer of ‘20 when they also said the Fort was racist because of its namesake being a slaveowner.

Fort Schuyler is still Fort Schuyler, so I’d have to imagine the MUGS still learn/memorize the Sallyport Saying, among others.

I’d do away with it only because it’s not appropriate. I doubt it’s being used in any BRM courses…

Family boat and the sleeping owner is your boss…tough decision Pretty sure the radar would be left on and maybe on the captains tv in his cabin? Couldnt know about the wind till it hit you especially if there was no rain in the wind blast so no movement on the radar to see

Statements made by experts should be evaluated depending upon whether they are speaking within or outside of their area of expertise

With regards to vessel operations the professor was outside his area of expertise.

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